Spraypaint ? Good or Bad ?

[Create and Destroy]

So Corinne and I have been having some serious debates over the use of spray paint in our episodes. She raises the environmental issue which I side with, however does that mean that spray paint immediately gets dismissed as a medium in both art and fashion ?

[Coffee]

Well, you can't really argue enviromental impact against artistic worth.

[Damascus]

If you're spray painting fabric though, the brand I use, Simply Spray, says it's safe for the environment. But like Coffee said, the environment is a more major thing to worry about. I guess it depends on how much you care about the world around you.

[Jelfish]

I'm not familiar with typical brands of spray paint aerosol cans, but I was under the impression that CFCs were no longer used as propellant in any of today's aerosol cans. In fact, I would have assumed that the solvents and metals used in the paint itself (sprayed or otherwise) would be more of an issue to the environment. Most propellants today are made of hydrocarbons that, while highly flammable, do not catalyze ozone depletion.

But, assuming that your issue is with aerosol propellant and not the paint, then I would say that there is unlikely to be artistic dismissal of spray paint as a medium because you can just as easily spray paint with an airbrush/mechanical compressor that uses regular air.

[FenderNeedles]

i actually did a project on cfcs and the atmosphere and stuff, they have been outlawed for awhile, spray paint isnt evil anymore.

[Jessica]

She raises the environmental issue which I side with, however does that mean that spray paint immediately gets dismissed as a medium in both art and fashion ?

What are the environmentals issues that you side with? CFCs are a moot point since they haven't been produced since 1994, the only other thing I can think of are VOCs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatile_organic_compound

So what are you guys arguing about exactly? :)

[corinneleigh]

yes CFC's have been outlawed because of the huge amount of people who voiced their concerns about them, but i would like to remind everyone that spray paint contains toxins that are still very legal. and it is made predominately with petroleum based ingredients, ie fossil fuels, ie huge environmental and political concern. also, when it is being used, even if it is outside, i can smell the residue lingering in the air for quite some time. i personally don't want it being used anywhere were i have to breathe or touch.

the following is on the side of the can:
CAUTIONS: CONTAINS KETONES, HYDROCARBON PROPELLANTS, XYLENE, ACETATES, ETHYLBENZENE, and TOLUENE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene).
DELAYED EFFECTS FROM LONG TERM OVEREXPOSURE. Contains solvents which can cause permanent brain and nervous system damage.

[MediaMisfit]

Ok. Environmental issues aside. Is spray what you would use to paint a stencil. I want some that with fade slower than normal. I spray painted some Jeans and it turned out no beuno. I have some acrylic which I was going to use but haven't gotten around to.

I would like to see fabric paint come in larger cans and a wider selection of colours. Does anyone know where I can get some!

[Nath]

I've done a little research on the ingredients, paticularly toluene, and I don't think the effects of spraypaint use are that terrible. Here's a few pro-spray points I've found:

1 - The majority of Toluene in the atmosphere comes from gasoline, which is 5-7% toluene. Nail polishes often use it, sometimes in concentrations of up to 50%. Also, about 80 to 100 micrograms (µg) of toluene goes into you for every cigarette you smoke. I think graffiti artists only make up a small portion of toluene contributors.

2 - Increasingly, Toluene is used to replace Benzene, a much more toxic chemical. So it's a step forward, environmentally.

3 - The use of spray paint to recycle clothes should be considered in contrast to buying new clothing, which in being can use large amounts of water, along with pesticides, inorganic crops, petrochemicals, sweatshop labor, and burning of fossil fuels for machinery powering and transportation. Compare the footprint of re-using an old shirt with a stencil design sprayed on with that of a shirt made in vietnam and shipped here, and it's clear that spray paint is the lesser of two evils.

4 - The versatility and convenience that come with spraypaint are huge boons to DIY recyclers and amateur clothing designers the world over. If all the people who made clothing using spray paint simply bought new things instead, it would be much worse.

All in all, it is definitely true that there are negative effects of using spray paint. But, if you want my opinion, I'd say that it is unreasonable to dismiss it, be you threadheads or any other part of the DIY community.

[superdoofus]

hey!
here's a topic i'm kinda really well exposed to. (sorry, had to do it)

anyway, "long term exposure" means occupational usage. i went to school for photography and sculpture and furniture design and continue to utilize many of the methods i learned in all my jobs over the last 12 years. i've used many, many chemicals for extended periods of time in various capacities for quite a while and these are my thoughts on the matter (followed by where we get our solvents from !oil industry!!)

when exposed to a solvent, most people recognize it as a "different" smell. for some it harkens back to when they were made sick from it (which by no measure will compound their physiology and is not dangerous unless certain factors are present, but merely a defense mechanism via learned response). for others it is a new thing and they may even enjoy their exposure for the effect (lightheadedness/goofiness). and for others there is no longer any reaction (like me when i encounter methylene chloride or methyl ethyl ketone or lacquer thinner, which i used daily for months on end when i was plumbing pvc or cleaning steelcoat from new steel, and made me sick for a short time but don't any more) which means my cns is damaged in respect to any level of persuant aversion.
just like you will not get mesothelioma from occasional and fleeting exposure to airborne asbestos, or lead poisoning from staying over at someone's leadpaint covered house, there's a difference between a chemical acting as merely a mild irritant versus it serving as an emergent poison to a constantly/over-exposed individual.

moving on.
the way that oil is refined.
to think of it simply, imagine a teapot with a collector placed at the spout, then another at the bubbles, and at the top of the water just below where it is bubbling, one just in the middle, and one just off the bottom.
now, this is how petroleum-based products are produced. the "steam" of the oil makes butane and such, and then acetone and napthas and other quick evaporating solvents are culled from the bubbling part, gasoline is at the spot below where it is bubbling, kerosene rests just below that, and motor oils below that, and tar congeals way on the bottom...

so, all that established, propellents are only produced by using a shit-ton of already fossil-fuel based energy. it takes an investment which is negative in respect towards the output to create the product, which is definitely not efficient and is, in fact, the reverse of such.

an inherent question arises now because of this knowledge of process:
why is diesel fuel so much when it takes, by its own nature of production, less money to produce than even low-grade gasoline?

it has to do with oldentimes d.i.y. farmers and their self-sustaining vegetable oil run tractors versus collusion and profiteering from the oil refining concerns which thusly and slyly engrossed the engine manufacturing industry into pertaining their product. their henceforth regulation of functionality and creation injected a market of demand for their services. it worked because they started out cheap, like wal-mart cheap. at first, diesel was a wasted by-product. and nobody could use it, except (oh wow!) tractors running on barely-refined vegetable oil.

anyway, not to spark debate or ramble much longer or anything, i feel that a can of spraypaint once in a while is no more damaging that operating a car for 3-4 miles.

[theinnocent9]

I think spraypaint is ok, if you are using it as a medium to put on things other than fabric. It doesn't stay well on clothing anyways, you have to be extra cautious when you wash and whatnot. Yes, there is a look that only spraypaint can give, but I have worked with alternatives that are just as well. The enviromental issues, the fumes, and the chemicals that consist of the paint make it a medium that I rarely use, especially since I have a 3 month baby boy. So depending on your creative and artistic needs, to each their own.

[lafemmedramatique]

I personally don't use spray paint... i know that it looks cool, but personally I have never had good results with it (tried it once when I was about 12--yes i diyed young--and it kept washing off on me... my mother was NOT pleased that we had gold metalic paint all over our washer and dryer!)... It isn't the only thing you can to use it to stencil, just easier for most people, and it's fast so if you're using a plain paper or acetate stencil (which are floppy) you're not going to have to worry about the stencil shifting as much.... personally, i got tips from stencilry.org, and my projects turn out fine... here's what I do (keep in mind, I have thus far never tried to use the same stencil twice... I hand draw them all, and so far mass production is not my goal)

I use freezer paper, and then draw out the stencil on the regular paper side (the other side is waxed)... then I carefully cut out the stencil, and place it where I want it, then use my iron on a low setting and iron the stencil on... don't worry, the paper peels off fine!

Then I use regular acrylic paint, and what's called "textile medium"... basically, it turns any bottle of acrylic into fabric paint. the textile medium will tell you how much to use... mine is one part medium for two parts paint.

i just bought a cheepo pack of stenciling brushes from the fabric store (right next to the paint I got, actually)... and I prefer the ones w/ the plasticy bristles myself... it's just a round brush, and the bristles are all one length... you just mix up your paint, then get it on your brush, and dab dab dab! it's a little slow to get the coverage you want, but in the end it's worth it!

OH! almost forgot! heat set your fabric afterwords! nobody wants it washing off!

Also, stencilry.org gives a brand of screen printing ink (speedball, to be sepecific) if anyone is more intersted in doing that... it's not expensive at all, folks! Plus, you can easily reuse a screen printing stencil!

Anyway, my point is, you don't HAVE to use spray paint... if it's what you have to use to get a certain effect I understand, but I personally like air, and want to keep it clean....

[ladyjanewriter]

Hi, Rob! I love that you and Corrine discuss this stuff amongst yourselves. It's funny/interesting how the punk scene and the eco-green scene have kind of converged.

Anyway...for me, it's a moot point. Spraypaint is illegal in Chicago, and would be annoying to obtain. (That doesn't bother me as much as the more recent ban on etching cream. Both the spraypaint and the etching cream are used by vandals for tagging.)

It's funny/odd, but sometimes city laws make it really annoying/impossible to obtain crafty basics!

***Edited b/c I thought of something else --

Well, maybe it's sort of like doing recipes, and then adapting them for vegetarians and vegans?

You can say, "OK, here's the not-so-environmentally friendly way [spraypainting shirt clip]...And here's the one that Corrine and I decided was better for the atmosphere...[fabric paint n' stencil clip here]...we recommend the 2nd one, but decide what's best for you."

That way, there's the whole respect for Freedom of Choice in the DIY movement.

But, yeah, I wouldn't want spraypaint, either. Even if I could, I wouldn't, b/c we feed our backyard squirrels, and I'm afraid they'd stop by and be curious about what I was doing and just get too darn close. (We can hand-feed some of our squirrel pals.)

[DangerPinsX]

Ok. Environmental issues aside. Is spray what you would use to paint a stencil. I want some that with fade slower than normal. I spray painted some Jeans and it turned out no beuno. I have some acrylic which I was going to use but haven't gotten around to.

I would like to see fabric paint come in larger cans and a wider selection of colours. Does anyone know where I can get some!

It's already been mentioned here but I thought I would reply somewhat directly. For acrylics the textile medium is great. It's really really expensive. I can't remember how much exactly but trust me, it's a bit rediculous. The upside is that any color you can mix with acrylic paint, you can turn into fabric paint just by adding the medium. And it's cheeper to buy blank or used T-shirts and the paint/medium than to buy all new shirts. Don't try using it with a screen though. It'll just end up sticking your screen to your shirt and screwing up the screen itself. I learned this the hard way when I was screen printing on paper. It's not fun cleaning bits of stuck paper out of a screen. Also (this too was mentioned before) be sure to run the shirt through a dryer after you paint it to heatset it otherwise it all just comes off in the wash. Run through a few times just to be safe if you want.

[toodaloos93]

problem: whenever I use spraypaint on my stencils, it seems to leak horribly....and that sucks. i prefer the use of puff paint. you know, the stuff that you draw on and then when it drys it puffs out? well, if you use a sponge, and spread it around, it wont puff. it looks great, doesnt leak, plus it comes in ,like, a million different colours.
so. there. oh yeah, it's environmentaly safe.

[lafemmedramatique]

It's already been mentioned here but I thought I would reply somewhat directly. For acrylics the textile medium is great. It's really really expensive. I can't remember how much exactly but trust me, it's a bit rediculous. The upside is that any color you can mix with acrylic paint, you can turn into fabric paint just by adding the medium. And it's cheeper to buy blank or used T-shirts and the paint/medium than to buy all new shirts. Don't try using it with a screen though. It'll just end up sticking your screen to your shirt and screwing up the screen itself. I learned this the hard way when I was screen printing on paper. It's not fun cleaning bits of stuck paper out of a screen. Also (this too was mentioned before) be sure to run the shirt through a dryer after you paint it to heatset it otherwise it all just comes off in the wash. Run through a few times just to be safe if you want.

The textile medium you found was expensive? The stuff I found wasn't any more than the acrylic paint! Maybe you could only find a large bottle? that's really weird, i think! I thought it was really cheap (only a few bucks!)

[azmoonchick]

I've never strayed from spray paint for eco reasons, I've always just found it terribly inconvenient.

First of all I don't keep much on hand, then you have to trek outside and lay down papers, be very careful not to inhale too much - lest addiction and dizzying calm, try not to get it on yourself, try not to let anything blow away (is it just me or is it always windy during such endeavors?) and keep a steady distance so it's not too sticky...

That's way too much for me to concern myself with -I am a terrific bum- so I only spray paint when absolutely necessary.

[pinoyblaze]

I use spraypaint, with a respirator of course.

Though I do find a nauseating smell from the shirts I do...

[the0green0meanie]

I have found, through my own personal research, that 99% of what you hear about "environmental problems" is just hype. Health concerns too. Petroleum products don't pose that big of a risk in such a small dose as a can of spray, to the environment or your health. I've known of some people to be worried about the effects of inhaling a bit of paint, while at the same time smoking a cigarette. It's no big deal. And neither is the environmental risk. CFCs are gone, and other chemicals are being replaced with safer alternatives. So, if you're worried about the impact you'll have on the global environment by painting a shirt, don't be.